Curse

bhavv · May 03, 2011, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

you'd be dead before you'd actually be able to run away.

Oh yea, the shadow step thing .... Just delete sins from the game, no one likes them in either PVE or PVP

Hmmm, could maybe try and make a tanky earth elly flag runner with stoneflesh aura and a running skill. I actually would really love to go back to playing a flag runner elly in GVG, but I prefer to be in a PVE guild, and it takes too long setting up GVG teams.

Is ganking the flag runner a common tactic atm in GVG though?

Still Number One · May 03, 2011, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Oh yea, the shadow step thing .... Just delete sins from the game, no one likes them in either PVE or PVP

Hmmm, could maybe try and make a tanky earth elly flag runner with stoneflesh aura and a running skill. I actually would really love to go back to playing a flag runner elly in GVG, but I prefer to be in a PVE guild, and it takes too long setting up GVG teams.

Is ganking the flag runner a common tactic atm in GVG though?

Flagrunners have a much larger job than just running the flag from point A to point B. You also must be effective at supplying heals, party heals, and keeping the base alive from enemy splits, as well as good field awareness and tactical knowledge. A build designed around only keeping yourself alive fails at doing everything but getting the flag from point A to point B, which is a job anyone can do.

Our Virus · May 03, 2011, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Flux is a horrible idea. Soon the flux will have to do with something tht actually plays a part in pvp like the amount of healing. Then we all get mad

distilledwill · May 04, 2011, 12:42 PM // 12:42

I understand that some metas will seem more stable than others, but the way I see it there are three ways that ANet can approach the PvP situation:

1) Continue to release skill updates every 3/4 months or so, sometimes hitting the nail on the head, sometimes overestimating/underestimating a problem.

2) Do nothing.

3) Create a system like Flux which, whilst not allowing the meta to relax between updates, at least asks players to rethink their strategy each month. And still get updates every 3/4 months.

Number 1) is insubstantial as there will always be unforseen problems created by skill updates, ones which cannot be corrected straight away and which will stay problems for months at a time.

Number 2) is insubstantial because... well, its a bit lazy isn't it? Plus I think we can agree that playing against nothing but Dervishes is getting a bit old.

Number 3) is insubstantial because it will force every player to take one single mechanic into account when building for a PvP match. I understand the problems with this. However, isn't it better (if we are going to be stuck in a meta where OP builds exist for a long time between skill updates) for the meta to change every month?

*lemming* · May 04, 2011, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

I understand that some metas will seem more stable than others, but the way I see it there are three ways that ANet can approach the PvP situation:

1) Continue to release skill updates every 3/4 months or so, sometimes hitting the nail on the head, sometimes overestimating/underestimating a problem.

Anet gets a lot of good feedback from people on the Test Krewe who hit the nail on the head 100% of the time (Ensign, Hates, Jakal) but chooses not to act on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Number 3) is insubstantial because it will force every player to take one single mechanic into account when building for a PvP match. I understand the problems with this. However, isn't it better (if we are going to be stuck in a meta where OP builds exist for a long time between skill updates) for the meta to change every month?

If you can come up with a good flux that makes warriors a viable option relative to dervishes again, I'm all ears.

FoxBat · May 04, 2011, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Whenever you acquire a new condition (from a foe?), gain X health. (10?)

Hits blood necs too, also sword wars and rangers somewhat but whatev, it's just for a month till something gets done about dervs...

Horus Moonlight · May 04, 2011, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Flash enchantments cost an extra 50% energy for each additional flash enchantment equipped. ^O^

Skyy High · May 04, 2011, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

To be fair, that wouldn't be the case if it were getting better, would it?

Point is, it did get better. I mean, it was downright silly for a while, and then it was only moderately silly, and then it was actually reasonable. Now...not so much, ok, but my point was that no one ever admits that things are getting better. The most positive comment ANet seems to get from the "hardcore" community concerning balance changes is "About time!"

Reverend Dr · May 04, 2011, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

The most positive comment ANet seems to get from the "hardcore" community concerning balance changes is "About time!"

Considering the best updates were simply reverts of past updates, this shouldn't be too surprising.

HawkofStorms · May 05, 2011, 01:33 AM // 01:33

6v6 HA anybody?

How long did it take them to realize that wasn't a good idea. "OMG, when we double faction rewards and put in 6v6, HA became extremely popular. Lets make 6v6 perminant."

Pretty much the exact opposite of iterative design process there. I would hope they'd have learned.

Anyway, all these big shapes up to the game at this point are kinda come out of right field. Flux just doesn't seem wanted in high end PvP. And low end PvP like AB/FA/JQ are also messed up because the NPCs were all balanced around players dealing less damage.

Missing HB · May 05, 2011, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

If you can come up with a good flux that makes warriors a viable option relative to dervishes again, I'm all ears.

Quite hard to think about something that would affect warriors in a positive ways and not dervishs to be honest.....

Maybe , dealing +15% damage when not under the effects of an enchantment, but i'm not sure then if sins would gets picked up instead of dervs....

bitchbar player · May 05, 2011, 09:04 AM // 09:04

All characters have basic armor level, no armor buffs from attributes or skills, only armor insignias ,weapon mods and shield bonus is added

Artisan Archer · May 05, 2011, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Anet gets a lot of good feedback from people on the Test Krewe who hit the nail on the head 100% of the time (Ensign, Hates, Jakal) but chooses not to act on it.

If you can come up with a good flux that makes warriors a viable option relative to dervishes again, I'm all ears.

Conditions last 20% shorter. (Stacking)

Cripple skills on the dervish should be nerfed, but I guess Flux is the new skill balancing so. Also promotes more spike oriented builds.

Or

Everyone moves 15% faster when in earshot of a partymember (doesn't stack with skills).

This way dervish IMS isn't as much better as everyone else's, aswell as promote more mobile playstyles. Again, it should be nerfed, but I guess Flux yadayada.

*lemming* · May 05, 2011, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Targeting conditions is a huge nerf to pressure in general and doesn't stop dervishes from being better in spike builds.

Targeting something specific to dervishes such as flash enchants or mysticism, maybe, but if dervishes are that imbalanced, why not just nerf them in the first place?

Artisan Archer · May 05, 2011, 10:19 AM // 10:19

I don't think anyone minds not playing pressure for a month, after about a year of triple melee... Anyway, I think warrior's still spike better than dervishes, if it wasn't for the rending aura and staggering force's cracked armor (maybe something to think about?).

fowlero · May 05, 2011, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

The most positive comment ANet seems to get from the "hardcore" community concerning balance changes is "About time!"

That may be because said community constantly tells anet exactly what needs to be done to fix things and they rarely if ever choose to accept the advice. For example the recent mesmer buff and consequent 2-3 nerfs to fix it.

FoxBat · May 05, 2011, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

I don't think anyone minds not playing pressure for a month, after about a year of triple melee... Anyway, I think warrior's still spike better than dervishes, if it wasn't for the rending aura and staggering force's cracked armor (maybe something to think about?).

There are good WS builds that run neither. Hitting WS is the best target.

Which brings up the point... every derv spike build has at least 2 other conditions they inflict in addition to deep wound... something a "gain life with condition" flux would somewhat mitigate.

distilledwill · May 06, 2011, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Anet gets a lot of good feedback from people on the Test Krewe who hit the nail on the head 100% of the time (Ensign, Hates, Jakal) but chooses not to act on it.

I've no doubt that Ensign, Hates, Jakal and the rest of the Teste Krewe do a brilliant job. But I'm also sure that ANet aren't maliciously ignoring their suggestions, there must be some practical reason. Either way, I wasn't under the impression that ANet are using Fluxes as an alternative to skill updates, but something in addition to them. So them ignoring the Test Krewe is another matter altogether.

Quote:

If you can come up with a good flux that makes warriors a viable option relative to dervishes again, I'm all ears.

I think the point is (as I understand it) ANet will not be releasing Fluxes to combat specific problems. I don't think the point of the Flux is to patch up problems until the skill updates come along - from what I can tell the point is to encourage players to try builds outside of the meta created by the skill update to provide variety in the intervening month. If they start tailoring Fluxes towards combating specific problems then they might as well use that time to work on the skill updates. If ANet do start to target Fluxes towards the holes in their skill updates, then I would definately concede that they're a bad idea.

AndrewSX · May 06, 2011, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

I think the point is (as I understand it) ANet will not be releasing Fluxes to combat specific problems. I don't think the point of the Flux is to patch up problems until the skill updates come along - from what I can tell the point is to encourage players to try builds outside of the meta created by the skill update to provide variety in the intervening month. If they start tailoring Fluxes towards combating specific problems then they might as well use that time to work on the skill updates. If ANet do start to target Fluxes towards the holes in their skill updates, then I would definately concede that they're a bad idea.

/Agree 100% with this. Flux are (probably) intended as a "crazy variable" in the pvp enviroment.
If a skill update is stupid/pointless/wrong, the solution isn't a flux (also cause wear off in 1 month....), but a fix to that update (well, we had 2 fixes of debatable effectiveness, but this is another story).

Xenomortis · May 06, 2011, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

I've no doubt that Ensign, Hates, Jakal and the rest of the Teste Krewe do a brilliant job. But I'm also sure that ANet aren't maliciously ignoring their suggestions, there must be some practical reason. Either way, I wasn't under the impression that ANet are using Fluxes as an alternative to skill updates, but something in addition to them. So them ignoring the Test Krewe is another matter altogether.

They're almost certainly a way for them to brute force a meta change without changing skills (something they've been very haphazard with). It's not so much for them to counter problems with specific metas, but for it to cause change without the need for a deep skill set that can let builds evolve over time.

Edit:
I find it hard to believe that the aforementioned people would have been quiet if the Derv update was run by them, not pointing out obvious problems, etc. And I find it even harder to believe that the Derv update was not run by the TK.
What good reason could ANet have had to release that on PvP?